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It is truely senseless to debate the existence of God since

1. there is no common ground for theist and atheist;
2. The existence of creator can not be proved by the created.

Attached is a excerpt from the Declaration of Independence of USA, which implicitly talks of the foundation of USA.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
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Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 枫下拾英 / 心灵感悟 / 诺贝尔奖得主:上帝与科学可并存(ZT)
    • 这篇报道缺乏第一手证据,充满不确实、误导之处暂且不谈。迄今为止,得炸药奖的相信基督教者是极少数,其它的不用信仰上帝都过得很好。基督徒爱拿有限几个炸药奖得主说事,和台湾啧啧不休与某中美洲小国建交有异曲同工之妙。
      • 没有信仰的社会是个危险的社会,看看现在的中国就知道了。
        • 我说的是不需要信仰上帝,并不是不需要信仰,比如我信仰一种可以把握的简单的生活,但这不需要一个无法确认其存在的上帝来维持。现在中国的问题不是信仰上的问题,而是人们因为长期受某黑手党组织的蒙骗,普遍缺乏常识。
          • 如果不是宗教,人民还能信仰什么?共产主义?你所说的信仰简单生活能否传递到普通人中?它能否解决生与死的问题?我们从何处来,到哪里去,这是对于信仰来说最关键的问题。
            朱学勤在一篇文章中评论国内的宗教现状时说过,人有天生需要信仰的倾向,如果不让正经的宗教进来,就会让那些旁门左道趁虚而入(大意如此)。这是好多年前的一本书,现在看来很有预见性。可惜他的书在书店折价处理,五六块钱一本也没有人买。
            国内政治环境是一个方面,没有宗教信仰也是一个方面。道德从哪儿来?为什么这么做对,那么做就不对?没有宗教,道德就成了无源之水,人们是不会尊重它的。你所说的简单生活能否提供给人们道德规范?
            • 我不认为生与死,从何处来,到哪里去,是什么关键问题。吃好,睡好,玩好,就很好。
              • 1, 你这样认为,不一定别人也这样想。2,大家都这样想的话,就会导致社会道德沦丧,因为没有约束力,只要我能吃好玩好,别人死活就无所谓了。
                • 遵守一般的世俗规范和法律就够了。
          • 不信仰宗教,卻又要信仰?如果你把你所信的「可以把握的簡單的生活」推廣給很多人,這個信仰就成了人們常說的宗教了.當然,你的這個宗教,反對相信造物主上帝的存在.
            • 你自己查看那个无神论的介绍,里面已经讲到科学和宗教信仰的区别。科学的出发点是需要有确实的证据,如果没有确实的证据,就没有必要相信某种东西。实际上人类社会的发展就是沿着这个实证的方向。
    • 科學與宗教的區別在於:科學需要証明,而宗教不需要.另一方面,既然人都是上帝造的,人類發現的科學方法當然也是上帝創造的.這件事,沒甚麼好爭論的,信不信由你.
      • 可是上帝是谁发现的呢?活着人都没有见过他。
        • 如果見到了,你會說那是上帝嗎?(上帝無時不有無處不在)
          • 说得好。正是有了人们的分别心在先,所以意识才会有了“上帝应该长的什么样”的概念,
            所以即便上帝真的出现了也不知道。每个人心里的分别心都不一样,导致了每个人心里的上帝都长的不一样,即便是上帝是万能的,也是众口难调。真的把分别心彻底去了,那就是“何期上帝本自存在”
            • 可是我就最不喜欢玩文字游戏,说些不知所云的话。既然上帝没有固定的形象,那就应该告诉信众们这个事实。如果个体的体验没有办法描述,那就应该用统计的方法研究。要是不知道,我们就该说不知道。为什么故弄玄虚呢?
              • 信則有,不信則無.這麼簡單的事情有甚麼故弄玄虛的?
                • 有没有和信不信有关么?那一个人从不信到信,上帝也从无到有了?
                  • 辨正唯物主義認為:客觀存在是不以人的主觀意志為轉移的.但人的認識是有限的.古人認為天圓地方,後來才認識到地球宇宙的知識.這個過程並不是地由方到圓的過程,而是知道的過程.信上帝的過程也一樣.
              • “可是我就最不喜欢玩文字游戏” - 可是你看你又把你自己的主观想法加进去了。即便上帝出现在你面前,你也会说“可是我就最不喜欢玩上帝穿便服”。上帝是谁啊,为什么要听你的。
                即便上帝听了你的,没有听我的,那我就要不高兴了。“可是我就最不喜欢玩上帝听金字塔的”。
                • 这个世界和我们的生命现象是有规律的,这些规律是可以被认识的。
                  • O? 是吗?那么是不是科技发展到一定阶段,连人什么时候死也会知道,怎么死也会知道?嗬嗬,那多没有意思。那时候估计世界要大乱了
                    • 你提出的这个课题,倒是非常有意思~
        • 上帝不是谁发现的。上帝是万有的。是不能够用我们的认知去想像上帝必须有另一个源头的,因为上帝就是源头。
          • 上帝的源头又是谁?
    • It is truely senseless to debate the existence of God since
      1. there is no common ground for theist and atheist;
      2. The existence of creator can not be proved by the created.

      Attached is a excerpt from the Declaration of Independence of USA, which implicitly talks of the foundation of USA.

      We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
      • 关于你的第一个问题,不知道你能不能谈谈为什么没有common ground;关于你的第二个问题,我的回答是如果一件事情没有任何明确的证据表明它的存在,我们为什么要相信它的存在,我们需要的是简单,不是复杂,不是么?
        • The answer to the first question is the second argument.
          You might not be agree my following argument since it begins with Bile:

          As is written tha God is Spirit and you can only perceive him with your
          spirit, not the rationale. So there is really no point to debate here.

          I have known XYS from its inception, FZZ is very strong in argument and made a lot of "plausible" convictions. However, he has never be able to
          explain a well-known social phenoenen that the life of millions of people has been changed by Jesus. Besides regarding Christian as mentally \
          retarded, he has no other explaination.

          Human beings have natural tendency to ask following questoins:
          Where we came from? What are we doing on the earth and where our destiny is. You might argue with me that you are not one of that kind. My experience tells me the time will work on you. Try to answer tose questions and, also, find out why human beings ask those seemingly
          senseless questions.

          Thanks for your interest!

          With his blessing if you perceive it with your heart.
          • 换句话讲不需要任何理由,你自己就相信了上帝,我这么总结对不对?
            • I responded to the calling.
    • 不太喜欢"信"上帝之说, 什么叫信, 人言为信, 难道听多了就信, 我一直认为人的宗教信仰来源于"悟", 什么是悟, 我心为悟, 用心去体验, 不要人云亦云.